Reflections of 2024 and Predictions for 2025

Jim Young 00:00
Okay, next person, Julius Marchwicki. Julius, I don’t know you for 25 years, but I certainly have been working with Johnson Controls for 25 at least 20 so good to have you. You’re you personally are a little newer to our community, so maybe if you could give us a little background on yourself and then jump right into you know, Johnson control, your perspective on what was prop tech all about in 2024

Julius Marchwicki 00:29
Absolutely. Well, thanks Jim for having me and welcoming me to to this community. I’d like to think I’ll provide a little bit of an outsider’s perspective, but I’ve been with Johnson Controls for about two and a half years, and I’ve been been responsible for what we call open blue, which I was, which is Johnson Controls digital products portfolio in the Prop tech and real estate space. And about a year and a half ago, we made a splash in the in the broader industry by acquiring FM:Systems, which has been one of the leading providers of integrated workplace management solutions for a variety of customers and and so thank you again for for having me. I I’ve got a couple of slides that, I think, a couple of slides that kind of talk a little bit about what we’ve been able to do with some of the data we’ve been capturing. And then Mark is speaking right to my heart as Johnson Controls in terms of HVAC. Obviously, our position in the market is heavily, heavily centered around our solutions for for commercial real estate and the HVAC perspective. But this is our FM:Systems utilization data. We have over 1000 customers, 300,000 sensors equipped in those buildings looking at occupancy and utilization. And you can just see over over time that that big drop off in that 2020, time frame and slowly starting to creep back up. And you know, the latest data has us, you know, in that rough utilization rate about 25 you know, 25% and it’s really on average you’re looking at, you’re looking at sort of a slow return to maybe pre pandemic levels. But one of the interesting insights that I wanted to share with this group. If we go to the next slide, you know, the a lot of the reflection on 2024 is what is, what is return to work look like? I love using this chart because it shows this big difference between the utilization of our customer spaces on that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, versus the full five day work week. And so I love this, because it shows, yeah, that hybrid work environment is is really reflective in the data that we’ve been we’ve been capturing. So, you know, I’ll go back to other predictions, or kind of other, other reflections on 2024 you know, I’m, I’m very much with, I’m very much with Mark. But I’ll look at 2024 as the year of, I’ll call it the return to five days. A lot of companies making a splash in terms of wanting to, you know, bring up the utilization of their real estate, requesting their teams to come back to the office five days, five days a week. Many of our customers never went home. Obviously, institutions for health care, acute and non acute health care have, had never gone home, and so operated at full speed for that entire time. So certainly, seeing in our data how, how they’re, how they’re how they’re coming back. So that’s been a big theme, is, is, how do we help our customers get back, to get back to a work experience, or workplace experience at five days a week? You talked Jim earlier about their return on investment. And I don’t think I’ve sat with a customer in the last in the last quarter, without having a discussion about, how do we achieve, you know, help them achieve their return on their on their prop tech investments. We obviously talk a lot about that in the Johnson Controls product side, when we upgrade chillers, when we retrofit, you know, air handling systems or control systems inside of a building, or come and do work on, on automation. And so that’s been a big theme. But on the positive side, as everyone’s talked about, AI and automation is, is here. And I particularly love the fact that, you know, one of the things we’ve done is started to tie in, you know, tie in actual automation and kind of predictive control of buildings, and leveraging AI to deliver ROI without anyone needing to lift a finger. And so, you know, I’m particularly proud of some of the work we’ve done in that space, really, you know, starting to automate building. In a way that maybe wasn’t possible without automation or artificial intelligence.

Jim Young 05:06
I remember, I remember Darrell Smith, when he was at Microsoft, you know, very carefully explaining how, you know, six feet above that conference room table in that ceiling that the air conditioning and the heating were fighting each other all day long to maintain that perfect 70x you know, temperature. And I remember the day my it went off in my head like, Oh my God. I mean, you’re fighting you’re using energy on both sides, right? And we’re hoping that AI can solve this problem at some point, right? Because you heard Mark say, HVAC is still a the major topic when it comes to facility. I

Julius Marchwicki 05:46
mean, it is, you know, buildings. We like to say, you know, buildings are responsible for 40, 40% of carbon emissions. It’s the biggest, you know, it’s the biggest source of energy expenditure. And so, you know, optimizing, what we like to call this multi solve, optimization of comfortable, you know, comfortable rooms, comfortable temperatures, with the right humidity and the right air quality. We don’t often talk about air quality, but then having spaces that have, you know, fresh air, low CO two, low particulate matter, is also one of those, you know, fighting factors between, between eating.

Jim Young 06:21
You know, what’s ironic though about, you know, the fact that, you know, HVAC is the biggest spend. It is 40% I’ve heard as high as 44% of the global energy spent. And yet, we’re doing this to buildings that are, in some cases, 20% occupied, right? And a comparison against an automobile would be, you know, like an empty car, right? Well, you wouldn’t do that. So why would you use any when the when the Tesla is sitting in your driveway, it’s not using any energy, but these buildings, even if they’re not being fully utilized, are still in 2024 not managing their energy spends. Well, right? And

Julius Marchwicki 06:58
that’s one of the great that’s one of the great synergies that Johnson Controls and FM:Systems can start to achieve, is that when we know a space is unoccupied, because we have a sensor inside of that room, inside of that space, we can be more aggressive in terms of setting, setting that room back, in terms of how we in terms of how we condition it. So, you know, we’ve, we’ve worked, we’ve worked with a number of our customers and a lot of industries to help them use that data to better operationalize their their buildings. And I think you’ll see more of that in the future, and a lot of

Jim Young 07:32
that contact with a lot of people in your, in your opinion, on this topic of getting at, let’s pick on HVAC for a second, getting at this HVAC problem, making it more efficient, using less energy in buildings that may not be fully occupied. How fast are we going? 20 miles an hour, 40 miles an hour, or 60 miles an hour?

Julius Marchwicki 07:56
Uh, I’d like to say that. I’d like to say that in some in some places we are probably going 60, because we have, really, we’ve got great sponsors, right? And they want to be very aggressive in terms of how they manage. But some places where they’re going 20, they have bigger, they have bigger issues to work on than than this particular expense

Jim Young 08:16
in the US, or is it out out of country,

Julius Marchwicki 08:19
we’ve it’s very aggressive in certain markets where, you know, energy rates are high, where there’s a desire to be really smart, you know, being being at 60% you know, we’ve seen markets like Singapore and Australia be really aggressive. The Middle East, super aggressive in in having autonomous, you know, autonomous AI driven operations of their buildings, very, very, you know, high in those markets. And, you know, some customer segments in North America as well,

Jim Young 08:48
is the US, fundamentally, the lagging behind in this, in this race. No,

Julius Marchwicki 08:53
I don’t, I don’t want to say they’re lagging. I don’t want to say they’re lagging behind. I think there’s, again, there’s different, there are different challenges in each market, and we just have to, we have to pay attention to it. One of those challenges Jim is, is the, I’ll call it the silver wave, right? The types of expertise needed to Automate, optimize a building is becoming harder and harder to find. And so that’s one of the positive things about AI, is we can, we can use AI and and begin to begin to help, help the non experts, like

Jim Young 09:23
upscaling and staffing. I mean another, this is another topic that we have diligently been doing, having for, or discussing for at least 1015, years, is the supply side of people able to to have these skills, to develop and implement these smart buildings. And it’s, I think the problem is getting only getting worse. So as an industry, I think we got to figure this one out. You know, indeed, people, well, there is no when you think Johnson Controls, you think you’re probably in every single building in some capacity in the world. Yeah. Yeah, one

Julius Marchwicki 10:00
of our products is probably 90% of the most iconic buildings in the world, exactly.

Jim Young 10:06
And so we are incredibly grateful to have you part, you know. And again, you’ve been part of the community over the years. I’ve been a number of individuals I’ve worked with, but, you know, I hope that you, you dig in, you learn as much as you can about us and our community, because I think that they have a real need to understand everything that you do, and in some cases, they can’t avoid it. So, you know, helping bridge that that conversation, we’re excited about that. Thank you so much. So all of you have heard everybody’s conversations, right and everybody’s perspective, and I think the last one with Eric was pretty good. I always like to ask questions that I can get very specific answers, but also relative. I can see that the 10% in 2022 or 2020 actually went 50 miles an hour, and then it went down to 10 miles an hour. And now Eric thinks we 20. So let’s start with that. Jim, do you agree with his speeds and his assessments of the last five so years? Yeah,

11:02
I mean, I do, and that mean, I think you were talking about the macro real estate transactions and, let alone, you know, investments, offer and prop tech and all that. But it probably very closely correlated. And, but, you know, multi family went through a boost, you know, and you know that continued. So they’re different, obviously, sectors and dynamics and yeah, but I am, you know, again, I’m as a technologist, and also where we sit in the market. I’m an optimist that 25 is going to going to be moving in the right direction. So we’re seeing that in our climate.

Jim Young 11:34
It’s going to be super acceleration. You think it’s going to be slow and incremental? Yeah?

11:38
Well, it just, I do think I love Eric’s, you know, relationship to interest rates and how that environment is going to dictate behavior and responses. And so I’m not an economist, but it is makes logical sense, and I appreciated those comments. So

Jim Young 11:55
Julius, I mean, agree with RX assessment of our industry speed over the last five years?

Julius Marchwicki 12:02
Yeah, I think, again, it’s, you know, if you take the entire world into account and you include residential and non residential, yeah, I mean, I think there’s, I think that could be true. But, you know, we know that there’s particular pockets of the world where I think they’re moving much faster. If they either have, you know, they have more capital to spend, or they have, you know, they have an external environment, whether that’s, you know, economic or otherwise, that that is leading them to want to be leaders in the space. So, with your

Jim Young 12:30
international perspective, where is the fastest moving country on the planet? As it relates to proptech,

Julius Marchwicki 12:35
I just in the Middle East, right from, from our perspective, the Middle East from from a geographic region perspective. And then, you know, when we look at segmentation by industry, clearly, data centers are, you know, they are. They are the fastest growing.

12:51
Tim, it’s where Greenfield is, right? It’s where greenfield development is. It’s a little more needed here, right?

Jim Young 12:56
Exactly. They’re in their built building state. And in being specific about the Middle East, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, on the top of the list,

Julius Marchwicki 13:05
yeah, absolutely, yeah. Saudi Saudi. You know, the UAE, this continue, yeah, continues to, continues to grow. So yeah, I think we’re seeing, we’re seeing a lot of innovation in that space.

13:16
And I would, I would add Qatar, or Qatar, however you want to pronounce it, to what you just mentioned,

Jim Young 13:23
for sure. Kim, anything you would want a final as far as the speed of our industry over the last five years.

13:32
Well, I my very, you know, micro view of it from my speed we’re acquiring as quickly as we can to expand our curb line portfolio, and we’re working on implementing technologies to support that. So I guess I have a different perspective, but I agree with the statements that Eric made,

Jim Young 13:53
but I think what Mark said about you know, his 2024 Mark, I think you shared with me is one of your better years ever. Kim, you’re acquiring as fast as you can. There are sectors that that have gone through this cycle at different, you know, speeds that are now in the ramp up phase, and I and, you know, acquiring as many, you know, curb line properties you can. That’s aggressive. Positive news. It is,

14:18
it is, it’s very exciting too. But it’s, it’s, it’s the shift in asset class, right? It’s just moving in a new direction for that company, right?

Jim Young 14:27
Okay, so we’re going to, let’s move, you know, continue the 2025 discussion. We kind of everybody got their opinions out in 2024 and, you know, even context going back to the pandemic. So let’s talk about 2025 Eric, I will start with you 30 seconds tops. What do you want to say about 20 or 2025 Yeah, I

14:51
think there’s definitely optim. We just had our North American with the conference just just recently in up to. October of this year, late October, and you could definitely feel a more optimistic vibe from the from our clients. Certainly, there seemed to be a big focus on the types of technologies that can help them really accelerate and reached a new level in their growth and strategy, as opposed to, you know, how can you help me cut costs and, you know, keep my AI check? And so those sorts of technologies certainly around, like AI, computer vision, AI, so being able to be much more aware of what’s going on in the buildings, to understand who’s going in and out of the buildings at what times, what, what even, what gender, what age group you know, being able to consume a lot more data about the people who are in the buildings, to be able to make much better decisions about CapEx spend and and marketing and leasing decisions and so

Jim Young 16:07
on. That’ll, that’ll bring on some privacy questions. So we’ll, we’ll have that webinar in the spring,

16:16
leveraging a lot more AI to to address things like data visualization, data abstraction, really being able to to alleviate all these very labor intensive tasks away from their front, front office stuff, so that they can go out there and make some some big moves with the business.

Jim Young 16:38
Jim, I mean, you got a big budget, you got a lot of priority decisions to make right to the top of the list. What’s, what’s the number one? Just give

16:47
the longer term perspective in that 25 you know, we continue to try to think about how we are going to grease the skids for the next chapter. You know, we are just finishing the migration of like our enterprise to the cloud, and all facility systems are going to go to the cloud. And this could plays into cyber, plays into how you orchestrate the enablement of the access to AI capabilities for running your facilities, let alone cloud first technologies that you know we were dependent on capital cycles to to up, to upgrade, and I think it’s a major challenge for the industry in 25 we’re very focused on how we start to execute and pivot to that kind of future, which is already happening. But

Jim Young 17:31
obviously with that cloud conversation, from an operational standpoint, cybersecurity has to be embedded in the center of that conversation. Yeah,

17:39
so everything you’re doing on the Enterprise has to be now might, you know, have to apply to what we’re doing on the facility side and just readying our teams for that journey.

Jim Young 17:48
Jim, okay. Julius, I mean, you know, 30 seconds on that elevator, what do you tell somebody as far as real estate technology for 2025

Julius Marchwicki 17:58
Yeah, for me, it’s all about automation and AI we want to take on, we want to take on the tasks that would normally take effort from a technician, right from a property manager on site. Let them work on the higher order, higher things where someone must go do work in the physical world. Let us take the software and automate aspects of the building, the HVAC system, the lighting systems, whatever the case may be, and and fix a problem before it happens, another priority

18:27
for the industry that has to happen to us. So grab glad. We’re

Jim Young 18:32
glad we’re lying. Jim, well, yeah, we’re going to talk about

18:37
camera just laughing and just smiling here to us during your conversation.

Jim Young 18:39
So Well, we’re going to have that AI conversation. That’s what we’re going to wrap up with, because it’s a big one. And I’m encouraged in some hands, and I’m discouraged in others, in that there are a varying degree of AI conversations going on the industry. I mean, I follow all the conferences, both real estate, tech in general, and some conferences in 2024 they’re still saying, is an AI Cool? Well, we said that seven years ago, and in some of the conversations on AI now are very specific, very case study driven, which, again, we’ll, we’ll finish up this conversation with Kim. What is your your insight the 32nd elevator run.

19:19
We’re, we’re we’re going to continue to try to acquire properties as quickly as possible. Therefore, we need people who can help us be more efficient operationally. And I think that that leads to the AI conversation, the machine learning opportunities that we face with data analytics, and trying to find those opportunities prospecting, prospecting is going to be a key focus for us, and making sure that we’re assisting the business with making that happen as quickly as possible. So for us, it’s it’s really about growth and strategy of the to support the strategy of the overall business, utilizing technology as an enabler and helping them be as efficient as possible.

Jim Young 19:59
Awesome. Yeah. Mark

20:02
Two quick things, outcomes and business focus, not just the technology period, it’s got to be outcome focused. And number two is, we’re going to move from survive to 2025 which I think many of you might have heard that to where I think that 2025 will be the year of why smarter buildings matter.

Jim Young 20:34
I would love to believe that, believe me, I’ve spent my entire career on that. I’m not quite convinced, but we’ll get, we can get into that, but let me, let me address Mark’s comment in a different, same we’ll, we’ll head towards the statement he made, but I’m going to do a little differently. AI, is obviously a very important topic, okay, fortunes, if you bought, you know, stock in, in Nvidia, you know, five years ago, you’re a very happy person, okay? Because, you know, AI we, we kind of knew about it. It was kind of this fuzzy thing, but the smartest people really knew what its power was. We actually introduced it in 2018 I think we had on it, Yardi, and then somebody from tritium, I think Nina, was on the stage. And we literally introduced it in 2017 or 2018 I actually asked Ani, Yardi, you know, what are your plans for AI? And he said, I’ll get back to you, right? That was seven, eight years ago, and I was obviously Yardi MRI, everybody is full on in I watched the different conferences around the industry. And as I said earlier, some people are still saying AI is cool, you know, and in the real estate industry, and they’re not digging deep our we’ll start with Mark and go back the way around. Mark. How do you think our industry is doing the built environment as a whole, as it results to getting to the real meat of AI as quickly as possible? How are we doing?

21:57
Well, I think you’ve it’s got to be divided up into, let’s call it the front of the house and the back of the house. And I think in the front of the house, we are further along than we are in the back of the house, in the OT side of it, there’s a lot of hope and dreams that AI is going to make a major difference. I think it is. I know we are working on it, and especially to bring AI to the device level, at the edge, not just in the cloud, but also cloud, and at that device level, where things happen, where, you know, things happen in the OT environment. So I think we’re, you know, we’re all moving along Fast and Furious. And I think we’ll start seeing towards the end of 2025, to the beginning of 2026 pardon the pun, we’re starting to see those AI applications that are working and successful, delivering outcomes, and those are to your favorite word still around the hype cycle.

Jim Young 23:13
So So Kim, I’m going to riff off of what Marcus said, and I stole that word riff from Jim Whalen just for the record, because he always Jim likes to riff, and I do too, and I steal his work. So Kim, you only can choose one. You got AI, you got a budget, but you can only do one back of the house or front of the house.

23:36
For me, it’s, it’s, it’s about the the the business operational efficiencies, not necessarily at the property level, because of the asset class that we have and the smart controllers are not the focus for us. It’s the focus is organizational efficiency and supporting the strategy. From a business perspective, Jim mentioned no Jim mentioned sponsorship, and from the CEO down. Our focus is building and growing curb line, so we have to be aligned with that sponsorship. And that’s, that’s our focus,

Jim Young 24:08
yeah, and that’s an important so when somebody comes knocking at your door, you know, chasing you around the conference is saying, I want to sell you something for the property. They need to understand what you just said, Yep, absolutely. And I think that’s where we can always do better in our industry is getting the vendors and the and the vendor community and the end user, owner, operator community to have those conversations. I would much rather somebody understand that about curb line and then spend their time on somebody who is absolutely focusing on the building side of it. So very important point. Julius, what would you say to somebody?

Julius Marchwicki 24:41
Yeah, I’m gonna, I’m gonna reflect back on, on on Mark and Jim’s comments that this isn’t, that this isn’t real. And I feel like, I feel like it is real. And, you know, we have, we have real hard examples of where, of where, back of house. AI based automation is helping our customers save some. $400 a month in terms of energy spend by just, by just adjusting and optimizing how that building is performing, using that AI. So it’s, it’s here, it’s real. It’s starting to scale. And I’m incredibly excited because we’re just talking about a, you know, a small set of things we can do. And so for me, by the end of 25, it’s about what, what are all the things, you know, what are all the things that I can do? You know, my background is in the automotive industry, and they’ve been practicing over the year software updates for a long time. So when you think about, when you think about what’s possible, right? Helping, helping address recalls before they need to happen. You know, changing the torque on a wiper motor to make sure that the motor doesn’t fail prematurely. I mean, we are just scratching the surface of what’s possible. And so, you know, I know it sounds like that, the community has been talking about it for a long time, but, but I think it’s I think it’s here. I think it’s here. And started,

Jim Young 25:57
we dug in this year, 2024 on AI and our team presented 16 legitimate case studies in the AI showcase at the conference in June. So please, please deliver those case your case studies to our team so we can get that to 2025 case studies. And 25 we want to get way beyond the hype and get to the meat, which will address the deal of tire budgets, everybody needs to be successful as quickly as possible. And those case studies really matter.

26:29
I think the opportunity Jim is just to continue to show those case studies that are specific. You know, there’s a lot of products out there, solutions that are just the window dressing. It’s, you know, we have it, you know, but really translating into use cases is really the powerful statement that we need, need. And, you know, the other thing is, we’re just, we’re riding the maturity cycles of our partners, you know. So Kim and I are aligned to Microsoft. I’m completely aligned to Microsoft, and they are on a journey themselves, you know. And so, you know, so the ability to then leverage these platforms to deliver vertical, vertical, you know, custom, custom network, but custom solutions that integrate with your data sets and make it impactful and beneficial to your teams to accelerate their own productivity and how they interact With data and how they interact with content is, is the next phase, and it’s, you know, so that’s a, that’s a journey that we’re on. And, I mean, I, you know, so I’m looking forward to, we’ll come next year. I’m putting expectations up.

Jim Young 27:31
And to that point, Jim, I mean, we, we’ve been having a lot of conversations on governance, and AI, right, the governance maturity model all the way to the point where your legal team or your risk team has approved the government’s not. And we were on a call, an AI call, and one of the guys said, well, by the way, Microsoft’s got a platform that can align with your governance statement, so you can literally automate your governance policy. And like, everybody was like, wow, how did you find out? He goes, Well, I’m digging deep, right? So we’re all committed to digging deep, and we but we need all of your feedback, supply and demand side. You got something good, you get it to us. We share. We all grow, right? Eric, how about you last thoughts on AI as a topic for the real estate industry in 2025

28:16
yeah, I’ve loved everything that’s being said. I would just say that from as a vendor, we believe we sort of had a responsibility to bring AI to the masses and lessen the resistance or the hurdles to adoption of AI and so in the past, you’d hear at conferences and trade shows and other things, this idea of we need to we need to go and leverage AI, we need to go and buy AI. But with us not buying AI, you’re buying a budgeting system, or you’re buying a tenant portal, or you’re buying an accounting system, or you’re buying an energy and waste management system, and we’ve just embedded AI into those things, so you may not even know that you’re using AI when it’s there. So things like generative AI, right? Your chatgpt style having a conversation with your software, right? That is now embedded in a bunch of different products. You can ask the lease admin system to tell you about, you know, force majeure clauses in your leases. You can ask your Business Intelligence platform to just return back some data in a specific format that doesn’t happen to already exist on a standard dashboard, you can have conversations, including even your tenants, can have those sorts of conversations through a chat bot in a tenant portal for submitting work orders or for paying rent. So that type of AI, and there are many other examples, are just now we’ve taken those steps to just make. Part of the system, so you no longer having to question whether you’re an AI company or you’re not Mayor company. You haven’t you buy a you buy a product. There’s a so

Moderator 30:12
Chuck’s back, which means we’re out of time. I had one more question, but Chuck’s going to tell me no, so I will, and I saw that there were some questions that came in on the chat that we didn’t get to chuck. You may just want to explain how we’re going to handle those. Yeah, what we’re going to do is and thank you again for all of your contributions. It’s always just been fantastic. Thank you for the live audience, for submitting the questions, and for Vishu and Sandy who did submit the questions, I will send them to all of you via email, and Ian can provide you their contact information. You can respond to them directly. So that’s that’ll be perfect. So now again, just thank you. Thank you all again for the contributions here, for all of your contributions with realcom, for all of the realcom followers, you share such great information. So this process has been great for them, also great for me, and I’ve just been thrilled to be a part of it. And whether you’re watching this as a recording or even in our live audience, now we just thank you for tuning in. Do encourage you to register and consider real calm I become that’s coming up June, 3 and fourth, with pre conference events as usual and so much of what you’ve heard here about what, even what Jim Whelan, you know, do perfect point where we want to have these discussions in greater detail and deeper, deeper conversations. And you then create these networks where people actually, even though your competitors, in some cases, you respond to each other, you share ideas, and it’s open discussion. So it’s just a great, great format. So if I could just add to that, Chuck summarize kind of my conversation that I just had with these folks is, I know sometimes you listen to a webinar, you don’t get all the points, but from Kim, I heard, you know, they’re going after the business, operational strategy side of it, okay, you know, Jim said, executive sponsorship, aligning with sponsors critical, you know, Mark said, you know, focus on, on the on the ROI, and understand where or where not Your products can be. You know, Julius with Johnson international perspective, listening to maybe understanding what they’re doing in the Middle East. And then Eric talking about letting, letting your vendors be the snow plow on things like AI, because they’ve got the resources. Listen to what these folks said very carefully, because they are truly nuggets of wisdom. And everybody’s busy, but, you know, taking the time to really dissect what these successful people have done, I think, is worth the time. I’ll add, I’ll add one piece to that, too, for all of the people who are tuned in or watching this as a as a recording, the conversation Kim, between you and and Eric, the the it wasn’t a light decision to say we’re going to switch to MRI. It’s not a light decision to say we’re going to switch to Yardi. We’re going to move from a spreadsheet system to a more structured, corporate enterprise based system. That is a big deal, and you have so much to offer to people who are contemplating that idea. So if you’re thinking about that idea, these are the people you need to talk to, and it’s happening over and over and over. So we went a little over, but so let’s close out wish everyone Happy Holidays and safe, and just wish everyone the best that’s all for us. Please stay safe and we’ll talk again in 2025 Thank you.

33:43
Happy holidays. Thank you.

Julius Marchwicki 33:44
Thank you. Bye.